Lindsay Marie Morris

Harper Alexander had little experience with Italian food before traveling to Italy and meeting his wife Eva Santaguida, who is from Calabria. But today, as co-founder of the Pasta Grammar YouTube channel and co-author of The Italian Family Kitchen: Authentic Recipes That Celebrate Homestyle Italian Cooking, he's doing his part to educate the masses about the food and culture that's inspired him. 

I sat down with Harper and Eva to discuss their new cookbook, why and how they started Pasta Grammar, what goes into recipe writing, the biggest misconceptions about Italian food, which Sicilian recipe is their favorite, and more. 

 

 

How and why did you start Pasta Grammar?

Harper: We started shortly after we got married and right as COVID hit. It was one of those COVID hobbies that a lot of people did during the pandemic when they weren't working.

 

I'd been to Italy a few times to visit Eva when we were dating, but food wasn't something I deeply cared about or knew very much about. And so, at first, I made these videos joking around with her because she was new to America and getting her reactions to American food, whether it's Domino's Pizza or the prices at Whole Foods, whatever. At the end of every video, Eva would cook to show how she would do things. And more and more people started asking for recipes. As we did more of these videos, I realized something I didn't even know when I married her: "Oh, you're a really amazing cook, and Italian food is very different from what I thought." and "I really like it, and I want to know more about it."

 

For me, it was an evolution of not really understanding what I had at home, which was a very talented cook and discovering this whole world of Italian food.

 

Behind the scenes of a Pasta Grammar video.

What goes into writing your recipes?

Harper: As the native English speaker, it is always kind of a fun challenge because part of my job is translating what Eva does, which is a very home-cooked Italian style. Nobody measures anything. You ask any Italian cook how much cheese they use. And they'll look at you. You're absolutely crazy for even asking such a silly question. But of course, when you publish recipes for people unfamiliar with that kind of food or write a cookbook, you have to translate something she does intuitively into a recipe. So we work very closely together when we're developing recipes. And so obviously, she's doing the cooking and coming up with the food, but then I'm measuring, seeing how much cheese she actually used, and then translating that into a recipe.

 

Eva: This is also very useful because if I write the recipe, I write from my point of view, whereas Harper's recipes are very detail-oriented. He writes for every kind of home cook.

 

What are common misconceptions about Italian cooking?

Eva: What I discovered coming here is that people think we love garlic. Yes, we do love garlic in Italy, but we don't love garlic as much as Americans think. In Italian food, the taste of garlic is very, very mild. Even if we cook with a lot of garlic, we usually remove it or let it cook for such a long time that it becomes completely delicate.

 

Harper: Another big misconception that a lot of people have is that Italian food even exists because Italy is so regionalized. When people visit Italy, they think, "I'm in Italy. I am going to get good pizza at every restaurant."

 

You sometimes need to go to a specific town to get a dish made properly. Don't go to Sicily and order a carbonara. It's not the place for that.

 

Our second-highest viewership on our channel is Italians. They watch the channel to learn about food in other regions they don't even know about. Someone from Naples might not even know what they eat in Milan. So, a lot of people need to disabuse themselves of the idea that there is Italian food. 

 

Which kitchen skill should everyone master?

Eva: The first thing people should understand is that you need to put salt in the food and taste it. You need to taste everything you cook to understand if you made a mistake and if it actually needs more salt or spices.

 

Harper: Unless it's a very specific baking thing where you kind of need some specific chemistry, we never give an amount of salt to any recipe. It's always to taste because that's a really important skill. When you see a recipe that says "a half teaspoon of salt," it is like, "Well, what kind of salt are you using? Some salts are saltier than others. Are you using professional Diamond Crystal salt?" 

One of our biggest pet peeves is recipes that give specific salt measurements. You really need to learn from every step. Also, with pasta, people are used to following the package instructions, where you just put a pinch of salt into the water. But people don't understand that you need to actually taste the pasta while it's boiling and make sure that it's properly salted even before you incorporate it into the sauce. So, we put all of that in the cookbook because I know, as someone who knew nothing about cooking before I met Eva, my approach to salt was always, "I just have to put a pinch of salt in my dish. It's just a mandatory thing." But I never tasted it and never added nearly enough to make the ingredients really stand out.

 

You feature several Sicilian recipes in your cookbook. Which is your favorite?

Eva: One of my favorite recipes in the cookbook is pasta alla Norma. 

Harper: Pasta alla Norma probably takes the cake because we consider it to be the perfect pasta dish. When we talk privately about trying a new pasta, our conversation always ends with, "Well, it was good, but is it pasta alla Norma good?" On an objective level, it's just kind of the perfect pasta, and that's why it's actually on the cover of the book.

It is just the balance of flavors. It's a tomato sauce in which you incorporate some of the oil you use to cook the eggplant. The combination of eggplant, tomatoes, ricotta salata (dried grated ricotta), basil, and olive oil just sums up that southern Italian flavor.

 

Why is incorporating the historical and cultural context of recipes important to you?

Eva: This is very important because if you understand the history of a dish, you can appreciate the dish by itself. A lot of people think that we Italians don't like to change our recipes. That's not true because what we have today is just the evolution of what we've discovered through tradition.

So knowing why, for example, they use these ingredients more than others makes sense in the dish. For example, the food of Venice: In the Veneto region, they use a lot of spices like cinnamon and cloves. Venice was one of the main cities during the medieval age that had the availability of all these spices. So they started to use them, and what we have now are spiced dishes that you don't have in other regions. Knowing the history gives the food a new meaning.

 

Harper: I have a dish that is tremendously important to me, which is just a really crappy grilled cheese on white bread, like Kraft American cheese dipped in Campbell's tomato soup. It's not that the food is particularly good, but it brings back memories that I had as a kid out in the snow in Maine. You would come back in from the cold and have this hot grilled cheese and tomato soup. So, the story informs how we eat and changes how the food tastes. I don't think food is ever objective. Those stories matter a lot.

 

You introduce people to experiences on tours. Tell us about them.

Harper: We do a couple of different tours. The one we started doing years ago is a more traditional tour through Southern Italy. We start in Naples and go all the way down through Calabria and into Sicily. What makes it unusual is that we wanted to make a tour that took people off the beaten touristy track. I'd actually visited Italy before I met Eva, so I thought I had the place figured out.

 

But then, when I started traveling with a local, she would take me to the places she wanted to go, and it was a completely different experience. So when we started that tour, the idea was to share a lot of those experiences that most tourists would never have, but in a way where it was accessible to someone who doesn't speak the language and doesn't even know about these places or foods to try or things to see.

The second one that we do is expanding off of that idea. We do something called the Week in Dasà, which is where a group of people come to Eva's small village in Calabria and spend a week living there with us. We cook together, we eat together, and we party together Calabria-style. It's a project that we're really proud of, something that's very unusual. People come to a place where there's never been any tourism, and they get the real deal of what it's like living in a small Calabrian village.

 

What experience do you hope people take away from Pasta Grammar?

Eva: What I see right now is that a lot of people treat food like something just to put in the stomach. It doesn't matter where you are or where you are eating. This is very bad because it's a moment that you need to use to take care of yourself and of the people that you actually love. So I hope they understand spending more time in the kitchen is a very important time of your life.

 

Harper: I went from being someone used to convenience food culture where I would say, "I'm busy. I'll just grab a sandwich or get takeout." And now I've gotten to the point where I can't imagine not spending time every night cooking food and eating together. It's something that is very important. And I didn't realize how important it was, and now I can't imagine going back.

 

 

 

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Pina and Rosemarie Sparacio showed up to our interview wearing red—like mother, like daughter. In their case, it's more like being a part of the same winning team. Since September 2021, the New York-based duo has amassed millions of views on TikTok. They also have more than 242,000 followers on Instagram and have a new and growing YouTube channel. 

"The most surprising thing has been walking in the street and someone stopping their car and saying, 'Oh my God! You're Pina's Kitchen!'" laughs filmmaker and content producer Rosemarie. 

"I feel so privileged, so honored to be recognized by them," says her mother, Pina, who came to the United States from Roccamena, Sicily, in 1970.  

The thrill ride started with a few simple, raw videos Rosemarie filmed of Pina cooking her favorite Sicilian specialties. And it just took off.

The three of us sat down to discuss more about how Pina's Kitchen got started, their favorite recipes, surprises, and their next steps.

 

 

Tell us more about how Pina's Kitchen began.

Rosemarie: I'm a filmmaker, so I'm always filming or wanting to come up with something to film or a story. I had this idea of a cooking show for a long time with my mom, but it was always too big in my head to put together. I was being very perfectionistic about it, so I forgot about it. And then, when COVID hit, I was just dancing on TikTok like everybody else was and having fun. I garnered a little bit of a following. 

I wasn't serious. I was working in film production. Then, one weekend, my mom was cooking something: caponata, a Sicilian dish. I was like, "I'm just going to record it for fun on TikTok." I didn't really think much of it. The way I recorded it was not very cinematically, just in the moment. And I posted a month later. It got 100,000 views. I was like, "That's something! Let's try it again. Maybe sometimes on TikTok, you get one hit, and then that's it."

So we tried it again, and the second video was a dish in the oven: baked ziti. It got 500,000 views. I said, "Welcome to Pina's Kitchen!" And that was the start of it. 

Then we did a third video—polpette di ricotta.

Pina: It's a very old recipe. When people in Sicily had no money to buy meat and make their Sunday dinner, they would come up with different ideas for something to serve with the sauce. So, if it was spring and a lot of people made ricotta, they'd make something with that ricotta. They used to make it in my town. It's got a lot of mint and sugar, plus breadcrumbs.

Rosemarie: You could imagine the controversy when she was throwing sugar into this ricotta thing, putting it in the sauce, and eating it with pasta. It got a million views, which was kind of its takeoff. And we just kept going with it. 

 

You draw your recipes from your family. Can you share any fond cooking memories?

Pina: My earliest memory is watching my mother cook.  My mother was a great cook. She had a knack for cooking; it tasted good, even if it was simple. 

I remember her making sausage and drying it for the winter, and I remember watching her making bread. 

When I was little in Sicily, my mother had a brick oven, and she would make a big batch of bread because bread was everything in those days. That was how you supported yourself: with bread, pasta, and vegetables. She would make all these breads, and then, in the end, she would always make pizza—not the American pizza you see: the sfincione on which my mother would put the tomatoes, sardines, cheese, and breadcrumbs on top. 

She would start in the morning; by the time she finished, it was night, and that would be what we had for dinner. I was very little because I could hardly reach the big table that she was working on. 

I also remember my grandma. She and my mother would sometimes bake a very big batch of bread together. Or she would get together with her sisters, and they'd make it together. They always did things together—even in America. They were very close. 

 

Pina and her mother in the kitchen

Did you two cook together?

Rosemarie: When I was younger, my mom worked, and my grandmother lived downstairs. I would go downstairs and stay all day with her, and she would make the pizza, cookies for Christmas, and rice balls. I was next to her, and I would kind of just watch, and I would try to help, too.

I know how to make homemade pasta, and I know how to make all the big stuff. I've observed a lot, but I feel like I've been surrounded by Italian women who can handle the kitchen. And they're like, "But you're busy!"

Pina: The short answer is yes, we cook together. When I broke my arm, she did Christmas by herself. Her father helped cut stuff, but she cooked. And I was telling her, "Okay, do this, and don't forget to do this." And she cooked the whole meal.

 

Rosemarie and her grandmother

What impact has filming your mother had on you?

Rosemarie: I used to take for granted how good a cook she was and how good my homemade meals were. I didn't realize how good they were until I started filming her, observing, watching, and paying attention. And then that caused me to be like, "I should be learning this." 

I realized she learned from my grandmother, and there's so much already lost and so much we're trying to hold onto. Now I'm like, "Okay, let me jump in and help you so I can learn."

Pina: Yeah, because my mother never really wrote anything down.

Rosemarie: So it's really all that she remembers from her mother and mother's mother. And there's already so much lost in that word-of-mouth.

 

Pina, which of your mother's dishes have you shared on social media?

Pina: My mother used to make stuffed artichokes, and we had a lot of views on that video. She used to make it plain, and sometimes, she would put them in the sauce. That was Sunday dinner. This comes from the old days when we didn't have any meat, so they had to come up with stuff.

You stuff the artichoke and dip it in the egg, fry that part so the stuffing doesn't come out, and then put it in the sauce. The sauce takes on the flavor of the artichoke, and it's so good!

We just made eggplant rollatini, according to her recipe. Here, they stuff them with ricotta. My mother used to stuff them with cheeses, cured meat, or whatever we had on hand. She would stuff them, roll them in the sauce, and bake them.

 

When I think of my grandmother, the famous ones are the fig cookies—cuccidati—for Christmas. We film that every year because it's such an important recipe. Many people don't even do it anymore because it's a lot of work.

 

I remember her every December making Christmas cookies, and everyone was helping. She'd probably make 10 pounds. 

Rosemarie: We have made 15 pounds of Christmas cookies all by hand, from the mixing and rolling to the cutting and filling.

Pina: It's a lot of work! That's why you only do it once a year.

 

What's been most exciting or rewarding so far on this journey?

Rosemarie: Probably the level of recognition when we go to events with the community of other food influencers that we've connected with. They've been so great. And then there are people who are fans, which is so weird to say that there are fans. I am still shocked!

We're technically filming just cooking videos, but it's more than that. People write us the most beautiful messages, like, "I lost my mom when I was 13 years old, and I remember she used to do all these things, and Pina's like my mom now." 

They also remember recipes that they forgot about and that their grandmother used to make, but now she's no longer alive. And they say, "Wow, I've been looking for this recipe for 20 years!" It makes you realize that food and recipes are a connection to history, family, and culture that can be easily lost. Recipes are stories. That's probably been the most rewarding. 

Pina: You can give that kind of memory back to somebody. At first, I was nervous because nobody really wants to be judged by people. I asked, "Why will people be interested in my recipes and what I cook?" But then, when people started to really be very positive and loving it and saying how much they appreciate it, I felt that I was giving them something, which made me feel good.

 

We're doing it because now we like the community that we have. We have all those people that are following us. They're good people, and I just love it. It's making friends. 

 

What are your plans for Pina's Kitchen's future?

Rosemarie: I hope that we can grow a bigger following. We're starting this YouTube channel, and I want to create a longer format show where we could really show the recipe so it feels more real, like you're stepping into the kitchen with us. Because you only get a minute and 30 seconds on Instagram versus a 20- or 30-minute YouTube video where you feel like you're in the kitchen and cooking with us. And then, hopefully, we can kind of expand to having different guests and having people showcase their recipes and share something with other influencers or maybe just other people in our lives who show what their family used to do—even past being Italian. 

I love promoting Sicilian and Italian culture, but I think what's more important is telling the story of immigrants and showcasing everyone's culture because we're all connected in that way, and recipes are very connected. Even Sicilian food is very connected to the Middle East, Greece, and Spain. So having it expanded past just Sicilian cuisine would be cool, too. 

We're slowly working on a cookbook, and it would be great to build the brand and reach more people that way.

 

Rosemarie, you've worked on music videos. Tell us about that.

Rosemarie: So, I started in film production, and I was on this track to be like, "Okay, I want to make connections. I want to be a director. I need to be in the industry." I focused on making a documentary and growing our page. Then, I stepped away from the industry completely, and I was just in social media, working for social media marketing and working on Pina's Kitchen. I started to feel kind of low, like, "I don't know. Maybe I'm making the wrong choice. I'm out of the industry. I'm not working on films anymore or big shows, and I'm losing those connections. Maybe it's not the right choice."

Then I got this random message from Tina Baione, who owns Keep Good Company Records with her husband, Matt. She was like, "We have this artist. We want to make this music video in Italy. I want you to direct it. We'll fly you out to Italy." 

From there, I'm now working on another music video, directing that music video. 

It's not the same as it used to be. Social media is the new push forward that creatives need to get their work out there. 

 

What do you hope people will take away from your videos?

Pina: For me, it would be positivity; they could connect with their memories and families. Maybe their loved ones have passed, but they can reconnect with them spiritually. That's a beautiful thing to do. And I want people to realize we're just normal people.

Rosemarie: I think that it's kind of like a call to action. I want people to honestly get back into the kitchen with their grandmother, grandfather, mother, father, or whoever it is. Because, like I said, there are so many stories and recipes, and you don't realize how fast time goes, and you could easily lose the things that keep you connected to your heritage, culture, and family. 

I think people won't regret getting into the kitchen with their loved ones and learning those family recipes. It's just a good time to spend with your family. So I hope it inspires people to be closer to their family and to sit down for dinner together.

Pina: You're going to build so many memories just being together, sitting around the table, even if you don't say anything, and if you just eat. It's that energy of togetherness and love that vibrates around the table from your family. That is memory. It's important. 

 

 

 

 

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